tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5111802929460493692.post8393156887186979199..comments2020-07-15T20:17:58.292-07:00Comments on Nailing it to the door. . .: The miracle of the vine . . . and the Lord's SupperDan Martinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01635080266346679464noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5111802929460493692.post-42793783373592196562009-08-05T09:02:09.680-07:002009-08-05T09:02:09.680-07:00I suspect Jesus was instituting a practice rather ...<i>I suspect Jesus was instituting a practice rather than a sacrament, if that distinction means anything.</i><br /><br />This distinction means everything, Travis. You are (I believe) absolutely correct here. Thanks for the comment!Dan Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01635080266346679464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5111802929460493692.post-74364498975243861882009-08-05T08:47:41.824-07:002009-08-05T08:47:41.824-07:00I thought maybe the next drink would be with God t...I thought maybe the next drink would be with God the Father, after the ascension. <br /><br />Eucharist should have the opposite effect of over-spiritualizing us. It's eating bread and drinking wine. It's physical and sometimes messy (at least the way my church does it). It's communal, or should be. <br /><br />I suspect Jesus was instituting a practice rather than a sacrament, if that distinction means anything. To practice a social-taboo-breaking table open to all, eating and drinking both as a symbolic memory of Jesus' sacrifice and as food for the journey he's leading us on, is central for my understanding of what it means to be a disciple of Jesus.Travis Greenehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06595790311812320371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5111802929460493692.post-91382476621109217532009-07-30T19:05:51.099-07:002009-07-30T19:05:51.099-07:00Might this day have already come? Perhaps Jesus is...<i>Might this day have already come? Perhaps Jesus is referring to his first post-resurrection meal with his student-followers.</i><br /><br />That's an interesting question, Josh, and I actually thought about it but chose not to say it before. It is possible and I certainly wouldn't argue one way or another, but to me the statement loses its poignancy, and maybe even its relevance, if it's "I'm not gonna have any more of this for a couple days..." even though we both know those days were seriously eventful.<br /><br /><i>Of course, suggesting that the church might have developed a sacramental understanding of the event does not mean it was wrong to do so.</i><br /><br />True, but it does not mean it was RIGHT either. I tend to think (in good Anabaptist fashion, I suppose) that we have over-sacramentalized a great deal in the church. Sacraments and rituals and dogmas and theology all seem to me to have the effect of creating a "religion" out of what was first a "way." This is not (necessarily) to dismiss all ritual, but I think we've erred on the side of over-spiritualization to the detriment of our understanding of the character of Jesus--and perhaps of the character he intended for us as well.Dan Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01635080266346679464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5111802929460493692.post-88843730781683350532009-07-30T18:24:32.342-07:002009-07-30T18:24:32.342-07:00Hi, Dan--
When preaching awhile back on Mark'...Hi, Dan--<br /><br />When preaching awhile back on Mark's version of this scene, I was struck by its spareness. It made me wonder, as you have here, whether Jesus saw himself instituting a sacrament in any formal sense. There is something quite powerful about interpreting his words and actions as a simple call to remembrance. Of course, suggesting that the church might have developed a sacramental understanding of the event does not mean it was wrong to do so. Both interpretations can have value.<br /><br />Another question I have regards the timing of the next drink--"that day...in my Father's kingdom." Might this day have already come? Perhaps Jesus is referring to his first post-resurrection meal with his student-followers. Maybe his resurrection inaugurated the kingdom that had come near with his incarnation.Joshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11823464329012635376noreply@blogger.com